Make server moves easier

[D9r]

I've been with HostPC for 4~5 years; I'm one of their original clients. They're nice folks - Joe, Dan, Nick, and the others. But in the five years I've been with them I've had to move to a new server about a dozen times and had to endure several other changes that consumed eons of my time. Just recently - 3 weeks ago - I had to move my accounts to a new server with only 36 hour's notice. Today I discovered that all my sites were offline -- the new server had been shut down and the sites were moved to a newer new server, and now I need to change the DNS yet again.

A friend told me his experience at another hosting company:
We recently upgraded servers and moved to a new data center, and all of our shared hosting customers (and resellers) had to move. But they didn't have to do anything - we just notified them of when they'd be moved, and then we moved them. And unless any of them accessed the site via IP for some reason they wouldn't even have known anything had changed - other than maybe the site ran faster on the new box.My suggestion is that HostPC use some sort of DNS magic (hardwiring, redirecting, whatever) to make these moves more transparent on our end. Ideally, we wouldn't even know that a move takes place.

Thanks.

[mhdoc]

If that would be possible it would be wonderful. I am still paying for hosting at my old service because of the few remaining database driven sites that I find extremely difficult to move.

[admin]

In the next two weeks, these changes will be implemented nearly 100% ... there's some excitement coming up here before Christmas, we'll keep you all updated.

Thanks for the feedback

[D9r]

In the next two weeks, these changes will be implemented nearly 100% ...
That would be awesome. Thanks in advance.

To expand on the suggestion a little further:
On Nov 23 - about a week ago - accounts on the www403 server were moved to 405 due to software problems. Emails were sent out telling us to change our DNS to the new server, but I did not receive mine because I wasn't checking email regularly -- I was on vacation. On Nov 28 my sites went dark because the old server was shutdown. One of my clients is particularly unhappy because his site was offline for about 36 hours.

Apparently, in the future if there is another emergency server move, I'm expected to check email every 2-3 days so that if the DNS needs to be changed again I can do so before the server is shut down. This means I can never take time off from checking email. This means if for whatever reason I'm away from the computer for a couple of days, all my sites could go dark at any time. This scenario makes my previously mentioned client nervous, to say the least, and I agree with him. He's already begun researching alternative hosting companies but is willing to give me one more chance.

The problem with this scenario is that when there's a problem with a server and accounts need to be moved, we clients have to participate in the process by changing DNS for the domains. As a reseller I can't afford to check my email 24x7 for 'emergency DNS change requests', because I don't make any real money from hosting -- it's only a supplement to my web design business. I need to be able to set up a hosting account for my clients with the expectation that the hosting will continue indefinitely as long as the account is paid.

What I'd like is for there to be a way that I don't need to make DNS changes each time my account is moved to a new server. I'd like to be able to set the DNS once and leave it alone -- to have "lifetime" nameserver IPs (so that I can use custom/branded nameservers pointing to the IPs), or if that's too much to ask for then to have "lifetime" nameservers.

Thanks again,
Dean

[tonydi]

As a reseller I can't afford to check my email 24x7 for 'emergency DNS change requests', because I don't make any real money from hosting -- it's only a supplement to my web design business.
No offense, but if I were paying you to host my web site, I'd be expecting you to be on top of this 24x7. I think it goes with the territory. Check out the time stamps on Joe's posts when things go down around here. I don't think he ever sleeps because that's what he feels it takes to support his clients.

If you don't want the responsibility, and I truly understand why you wouldn't, why not just step out of the way and let these clients get hosting directly? They'll be happier and you won't have as many things to worry about. Since you aren't making much money from that part of your business, it seems like it would be easy to let it go.

[MikeD]

Apparently, in the future if there is another emergency server move, I'm expected to check email every 2-3 days so that if the DNS needs to be changed again I can do so before the server is shut down. This means I can never take time off from checking email. This means if for whatever reason I'm away from the computer for a couple of days, all my sites could go dark at any time.
There is a way to stay informed on account issues without checking email. I have my account email set to a gmail account and gmail forwards any messages originating at hostpc.com as a text message to my cellphone. The text message won't contain the complete communication, but it usually includes enough to let me know whether I need to get to a computer and take action.

[dbmasters]

No offense, but if I were paying you to host my web site, I'd be expecting you to be on top of this 24x7. I think it goes with the territory.

I agree with this completely, which is the exact reason I am no longer reselling to clients...I refer clients to get their own hosting account (strongly suggest HostPC) so I am not expected to deal with it. Because you are right, if I am being paid to "host" them, it is my job and unless you have hundred of clients, it's simply not worth the P.I.T.A. that the job is...

So I now only build web sites I don't host them...I don't even pretend to host them any longer.

[D9r]

OK then, what about my clients? Is it reasonable for them to be required to monitor their email 24x7 in order to receive 'change-your-DNS-messages' sent from me (after I've received them from HostPC)? This is independent of how closely I monitor my accounts because after I receive the notice from HostPC and pass it on to my clients, the client has to receive the message in a timely manner and change their DNS or else their site will go offline. Clients should not be required to monitor their email 24x7 in order to keep their website live.

And why should my clients be required to change their DNS 3 times a year? I've hosted with Laughing Squid since 2000 and in those 7 years I've never been asked to change the DNS. As quoted above, Intelliracks similarly does not require their clients (including resellers) to change DNS.

The multiple DNS change requests is the main point here. HostPC's reseller page (http://www.hostpc.com/reseller.php) says, "Sell your own services - let us worry about the hardware". To me that says HostPC will do whatever it takes to keep the site online and live, including keeping the DNS consistent. In short, once I buy the hosting the hosting should work without my active involvement . . . .

. . as at Intelliracks:
our last move. We recently upgraded servers and moved to a new data center, and all of our shared hosting customers (and resellers) had to move. But they didn't have to do anything - we just notified them of when they'd be moved, and then we moved them. And unless any of them accessed the site via IP for some reason they wouldn't even have known anything had changed

[D9r]

Actually, as it turns out (after being able to check email now that the new DNS has resolved), the reason my sites went dead on Nov 28 is not because I didn't check my email. I did read every applicable email on time. My sites went dead because on Nov 13 HostPC told me www403 would stay online and all the problems were fixed, but then when the new problem came up they didn't notify me that I needed to move afterall. My sites went dead because I was misinformed.


11/10/2007 12:34 PM
(Email - Notice from HostPC)

All resellers are advised that an immediate change to DNS is needed for all websites currently being hosted on www403.privatelabeldns.com

Your DNS needs to point to:
ns405a.privatelabeldns.com
ns405b.privatelabeldns.com
11/10/2007 13:44
(Help Desk - Me)

>> 2. Let us know what you decide on the move.

I figured out how to use 'mod_rewrite' to solve the 'content negotion' problem. Now my links without file extensions work again. yeah! (It isn't as good as 'mod_negotiation', but at least it works.)

So I'll stay where I am now, with Apache 2 on www403. (http://www403./)
Move complete! :)
11/10/2007 14:01
(Help Desk - Staff)

Ready to kill the account on 62??
11/13/2007 06:48
(Help Desk - Me)

>> Ready to kill the account on 62??

I made backups of the sites, I installed them on 403, the domains are resolving to 403, . . I guess so. There might be some email stranded at 62, which I'm not concerned about. So yes, I think the transfer is complete. I can't think of any reason why not to kill the account on 62.

``````````````````````````````````````````````
I am curious about the notice sent 11/10/2007 12:34 PM:
"
All resellers are advised that an immediate change to DNS is needed for all websites currently being hosted on www403.privatelabeldns.com (http://www403.privatelabeldns.com/)

Your DNS needs to point to:
ns405a.privatelabeldns.com
ns405b.privatelabeldns.com
"

This isn't a joke, is it? I've lost a week of productivity already.
11/13/2007 07:08
(Help Desk - Me)

I just saw the forum thread on 403 hardware problems: http://www.hostpc.com/community/showthread.php?t=3540

If possible, I'd prefer to continue using the IPs I'm currently using:

w 403: 74.200.213.162
NS1 IP: 74.200.213.163
NS2 IP: 74.200.213.164
11/13/2007 07:13
(Help Desk - Staff)

You can continue to use 403
When 403 would not come back up, Joe moved all data to 405 .. so 405 is just a duplication to 403
DA techs came in and fixed the problem with 403 .. so it it fine now ...
Since Joe had data on 403 and 405 ... he just gave you guys the option of which you wanted to use since some ppl had already switched DNSI received no notices after that, and on Nov 28 the server was shut down. That's disturbing -- I did everything I was supposed to do and the server was shut down regardless.

Suggestion:
for HostPC to improve its system of communications with us clients, so that what just happened to me doesn't happen again.

[eugene]

A suggestion for you, D9r: set up your own DNS system for your clients, acting as a middle-man of sorts. This way, your clients need not make any DNS changes in the event such changes are required because you will update the appropriate DNS info.

[D9r]

Thanks, I did set up custom nameservers, but it doesn't solve the core problem. The point is, DNS should never need to be changed when an account is moved to a new server. HostPC is the only webhost I've heard of that requires a DNS change.

The short version:
```````````````
(1) HostPC move the account when changing servers, instead of requiring clients to move their websites.

(2) Keep nameservers the same when changing servers, instead of requiring clients to change their nameservers each time their account is moved.

(3) Do better with communications. On Nov 13, Help Desk Staff told me I could stay on www403; on Nov 28 they shut down www403 without telling me I needed to move afterall, and as a result my sites went offline for 36~48 hours until the new DNS could resolve.

[D9r]

A suggestion for you, D9r: set up your own DNS system for your clients, acting as a middle-man of sorts. This way, your clients need not make any DNS changes in the event such changes are required because you will update the appropriate DNS info.

How would you do that? Maybe I'm doing it wrong. The setup I use is described at HiveMinds.org (http://hiveminds.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=49558#49558).

[D9r]

I think I understand the DNS/nameserver situation now, and it may or may not be possible to do what I'm asking for with DirectAdmin. DirectAdmin apparently sets up each server with its nameservers included on the same box, as its "own little island", so when the server is changed you're forced to also change nameservers. What I was proposing is for the nameservers to be independent of the website servers (similar to the concept of linking to stylesheets rather than using inline styles, or the use of internationalization for varied language support, or the use of templates to separate content from page layout, etc.).

Here's the explanation I received from a Hiveminds member:


At HostPC I've had to change the DNS each time the account was moved because their naming scheme is tied in with the server name:

www403 uses
ns403a.privatelabeldns.com
ns403b.privatelabeldns.com

www405 uses
ns405a.privatelabeldns.com
ns405b.privatelabeldns.com


www403, ns403a, and ns403b are all the same server, as are the respective versions of 405. If their hosting platform is CPanel or something similar, then each physical server provides all facets of the hosting - web, email, control panel, FTP, and DNS. It isn't geared toward any sort of clustering or separation of services, each server is its own self-sufficient little island. Moving an account to a different server means transferring all functionality to a different machine, hence not only having to change the IP address of your site, but the nameservers themselves.

It's better practice for a hosting company to run separate DNS servers, and CPanel does in fact provide a way to do so.

[D9r]

I hosted with L.S. from 2000-2008. Not once in 8 years did I ever need to change the DNS while at L.S.

I've hosted with D.H. from 2007-2010. Not once in 3 years did I ever need to change the DNS while at D.H.

I've hosted with HostPC 2003-2010. In 7 years I've had to change DNS at least a dozen times while at HostPC.

Requiring HostPC clients to change our DNS repeatedly is unnecessary and a needless aggravation. I realize DNS changes each time DirectAdmin is installed on a new server, but that doesn't justify passing on the aggravation to HostPC clients. HostPC should use a central DNS server (like most hosting companies use) to point client DNS to server DNS. When the server DNS changes (due to server moves), HostPC would change the mapping so that client DNS points to the new server DNS. That way clients would only need to set their DNS once and be done with it. This is not a new suggestion, but for some reason HostPC has been resistant to implementing it.