More Globally-installed apps?

[Jeff]

I'd like to suggest that HostPC consider adding some globally-installed apps with support for the initial setup only. Whether these were installed or not in customers' space would be determined by settings in the User CP.

Some that I'd like to see as global installs:

Invision Power Board
Gallery or Coppermine
A content-management solution such as Post-Nuke

If it's feasible, it would seem like a terrific selling point! ;)

[eugene]

Since these are all examples of DB-heavy apps, doesn't it make more sense to have each individual customer simply install each app themselves? The non-global nature of the apps and the overall ease of install of each package make them good choices for locally installed instead of globals.

-Eugene

[Joe]

Like a Cpanel add on package... I think it's called "Fantastico" ...

I do see what you mean - user selectable, I'll pose the question to DA and see where it lands.

Joe

[dbmasters]

A- HostPC already has a terrific selling poiint with the services/price they do offer

B- There is no way HostPC would get away with automating an install for a web-app and then claiming to NOT support it

C- What is this with web-peeps not wanting to do anything for themselves, but still wanting a fully dynamic and interactive website...come on now, if you don't want to put forth the simple effort of installing these things, why should you reap the reward of having them?

The internet has truly made people lazy and to feel everything should be free...

Installing most of these scripts is VERY simple with very basic knowledge, and that is knowledge that anyone actually running a website should have...or, they shouldn't run a website.

IMHO.

[eugene]

Maybe a compromise would be to have detailed instructions for the inexperienced "web peeps" to install said packages. These instructions or how-to guides would include all steps necessary to do a complete, semi-secure install.
Hopefully, it would make it simple for those scared by the propect of understanding permissions and how to use internet technology.
-Eugene

[dbmasters]

Now THAT is a decent idea. Get the app you want installed, get the fun of doing it yourself, plus, if your not careful, one might learn something. I like that!

[Jeff]

Hmm, ruffled some feathers with this one! ;)

I still think it's a good idea. My own success rate with installs is low. I'm not afraid to set permissions or set up a MySQL DB, but my ability to troubleshoot is limited to double or triple-checking that I followed the install instructions. If it doesn't work beyond that, I'm stuck and I proceed to yank the whole install out of my space (usually while angrily muttering about the fruitless investment of time :D). Of the list above, only IPB worked for me without help. BTW, I've admin'ed LAN servers on 2 platforms, so I have no trouble managing my apps once they're installed.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but getting some troublesome apps installed automagically holds a lot of appeal for me.

[eugene]

Jeff-
My proposal was to set up detailed, step-by-step how-to guides for each of these packages. To this end, Joe created a special "How To: Direct Admin" forum for these guides. Look for additions to the site as we get time to put them up. I'm unable to do any large postings/projects until January.
-Eugene

[Joe]

What if:

Would there be any interest if HostPC were to setup stock installs of this on a "per domain" basis - for a small service fee?

We could do something specific for your domain for a modest fee of maybe $5 or $10 per application - based on what you want.

Comments?

[Jeff]

Joe-

As you know, I've been an alpha tester for your idea. ;) Nick's install work has been good when I needed a turnkey solution and I wouldn't hesitate to use it again. Automatic and free sounds better, though.

[dbmasters]

Originally posted by Jeff@Dec 12 2003, 01:58 PM
Automatic and free sounds better, though.
:rolleyes:

[Jeff]

<deleted>

[dbmasters]

Uuuummmm, differing opinions does not equal hijcking a thread. I am just continually curious why people get a web site in the first place if they don't want to build it and don't want to pay someone else to do it...I will never understand that.

The things people expect out of a host, or even ask a host, is just incredible. HostPC is a great host, with a stellar feature/price/uptime ratio yet people still want more...

[Ben]

I agree that the problem with the "global installs" is that then people would expect HOSTPC to support those apps.

Spending a fair amount of time volunteering my support services at IPB, I can safely say that the majority of people that have problems either can't read (apparently) and follow instructions, or have no idea what they are doing and break the board by fiddling.

What a potential time sink for HostPC to be getting support tickets about some forum that got broken during a mod/hack install etc.

Most of the applications that you listed (and most that are out there) have forums/support areas on their website. And if not, there is always GOOGLE, which you can search for the answer to a specific error message etc.

Just my 2cts.

[Jeff]

<deleted argumentative portion after rethink>

Andrax- I see your points about the difficulty of drawing a "line in the sand" on support. IMHO, Joe has meticulously and logically defined what currently is and is not supported here. I recognize and respect that it's a business decision for him as to whether his customers, present and future, could handle a similar "line" for a suite of scripts. You have well-reasoned doubts that they can. I've never been a support provider for this type of user, so I don't have any similar base of knowledge to draw upon. Ultimately, it's Joe's call.

I'm the kind of person who tries to think outside the box, always looking for what can be done to make something better. I think the other posters in this thread are from the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought that's typical of highly technical types. Assuming you all are a "10" on the technical savvy continuum, I'm about a "6" or "7." I really do think HostPC is great as it is, too, and this is not a make-or-break issue from my standpoint.

Since I've been here, Joe has always been open to customer input on future directions for HostPC. I offered my suggestion in that spirit. I intend to pull for this suggestion until I hear him say a definite "no." :)

[dbmasters]

I guess I must apoligize, perhaps I came off snide, but this subject always hits me where it hurts. I am a programmer, I donate many scripts to the open-source community when I feel they can be useful to others. it really upsets me when I hear this kind of thing, cuz I hear it from many people myself. It makes me wonder if anything will ever be enuf.

I donate my hard work to the open-source community freely for all to use, which I personally consider generous, and when I hear "oh, add this, add that, it doesn't work for ME whats wrong?" and that kind of stuff it makes me angry...likewise, when I have a friend like Joe who is giving absolutely stellar hosting service for a great price, it upsets me when people continue to say "you should do this and do that and do it for free".

I understand the spirit in which you added your suggestions, I hope you can understand where I come from as well. How is Joe to stay in business if he gives everything away?

[Jeff]

Dan-

Apology accepted. I want Joe to stay in business too, so we're on the same page. Because the service here is so good and I recognize the value, I have managed several times in the past year to find ways to buy more of it and send him more of my money. :) Also, I've been one of HostPC's louder proponents in a couple of prominent online communities.

I do appreciate the contribution of open-source programmers, although I seldom provide feedback on their efforts or request support. Hearing what you say about feeling under-appreciated makes me think I should do more of the former, especially when my user experience is good.

I'm gonna take advantage of the power of IPB by using it to engage in some revisionist history to tone down my contribution to this thread a little bit.

[dbmasters]

As with any business, most anything we hear is when poeple are pissed off about something, rarely does anyone email and say "wow, what a great product, thanks for it".

Makes it not really worth it sometimes, ya know? The few people that do actually pass an "ataboy" is a real treat.

[Ben]

I agree that its totally Joe's call... ;)

I was just pointing out that many of the more popular apps that you listed already have fairly well established support communities to help people out if they run into problems with those scripts/software packages.

My point was just that if HostPC auto installs stuff, most people are going to expect to get help with it (if its not working) from HostPC.



On a side note... if you have problems with stuff like Invision or what not, deffinitely hit their forums (http://forums.invisionpower.com). There are a LOT of people around who are VERY "in the know" over there that volunteer their time to help.

On a lighter note...

It never fails to amaze me that SOOOOOOO many people can end up at the IPB support forums with EXACTLY the same problem/question and they will ALL post the SAME question regardless of how many times you answer other identical questions.

Couple weeks ago I must have cut and paste an answer half a dozen times, in half a dozen threads. These were ALL questions in the same area of the forum, on the SAME page!!! LOL Scrolling down the page a bit would have revealed the answer to the question before they even posted.

:huh:

Makes you wonder... :)

[Jeff]

Andrax-

Interesting story - and so sad that the IPB support-seekers are too lazy to scroll and read! Those must be some of the same people I encounter on the road who are too lazy to find their turn signal before making a turn. ;)

IPB is the one app on that list that worked right for me the first time – and I was bowled over by that, considering its complexity! Only problems I've had cropped up when I moved it from one directory to another and didn't adjust the paths internally. (Fortunately, I didn't have to waste people's time on the support forum solving that one, since I was 100% at fault.) IPB just works so well that I thought it would be a terrific addition to my proposal for a HostPC suite. Joe obviously likes it, too.

On a side note, the group I installed it for likes IPB so much that I'm hoping to persuade them to pony up for the registration. I think it'd be a good investment.

[Ben]

I'm a registered customer of IPB myself, and getting priority support is nice. That is the only real difference though between "Paid" and "Unpaid". Well, if your a paid customer you do get some additional modules for free, and discounts on others.

Couple things regarding IPB (not to get too far off topic), but if you ever make any path changes accidently in the AdminCP of the forum, you can download the conf_global.php file from the root of your forum and fix them, re-upload and your forum should be back in action.

I've been using IPB for a while, and I am nothing but pleased with its power, performance and ease of use.

[dbmasters]

I doubt there is a single support board on the 'net that doesn't have at least one question asked a hundred time...the interent has made people lazy...and demanding...bad combination :lol: